AgendaRSE Ledesma

Estuvimos con Marcos Uribelarrea quien nos cuenta el modelo de liderazgo en sustentabilidad ejercido desde adentro hacia afuera de la compañía. Te invitamos a escuchar la entrevista!

Curso Dragon Dreaming Argentina 31.3! No te lo pierdas!!!!

The Proteus Initiative Towards an alive way of thinking with Allan Kaplan & Buhar

Spanish Version here

Sue Davidoff & Allan Kaplan

Allan Kaplan and Sue Davidoff came to Argentine to give a course with Buhar with Martin Bunge and http://www.proteusinitiative.org/ . I would like to make you know them,  who you are, and get people to know what are they doing in Southafrica, because they are from Cape Town. They wrote the book artist of the invisible.

Florencia: "Thank you very much for being in Argentine Sue and Allan, it was very nice to meet you and to share all this moments, these three days that we had the course, we saw how to be artists of the invisible." I think it was an amazing experience, i feel that it was an amazing experience more than what i think. Would you explain us a little bit what your initiative is about, what are you working for, how can people know more about about you? Your concepts are so amazing, we can apply them in any area of our life, our work, the environment, the relationships between groups for peace. Would you explain us what we lived these days and which your message is?

Allan: The preteus Initiative is an attempt to work with a new way of seeing. With a way of seeing that is able to look into the processes,  and to look into the living processes, also in the social processes to look at the sources, of how life lives and what emerges, in the social situation that we meet and to try and work with the practice of observation, as a healing modality work.

Sue: I want to add to that that the social world that we lived in, is alive is moving all the time, it is constantly in change and part of what we are working with is to help people to recognize that while that under movement is invisible, is what makes social process, natural process alive. And if we are able to see that movement, then it enables to work inside in the flow of life, and it is a social responsibility to act in service of life giving, life healing ways and let happens to see the world experiencing that it is alive rather than static as we often tend to do.

Allan: So we try to work in a very delicate but radical way, in the sense of not try to manage, to intervene in problem solving, to impose in all of these issues that we face, but rather to work in which all of us are emerging and participating in the world, and it enables the world to shift in it radical way rather with intervention. But the attempt to see in the heart what it is happening, enables situations to transform themselves.

Florencia: In an active role. You called us to be active members of this world.

Sue: Yes, to be active, and to be receptive at the same time. So it is a different kind of activity. Because as Allan was saying we are all participating in shaping the world as it is and when we are fix only on doing and doing and doing, and so then intervening and controlling and manipulating, then we are creating a very particular kind of world. But when we are active in a way that really allows the world to really speak to us, then we enter into with a different sensibility and that reciprocity that we are really in search of. 

Florencia: Yes you talked about the movement. Those movements that life makes us do, to get the outside world to the inside and then make life alive. So you have a place in SouthAfrica that you told me. A very beautifull place where you do some activities. Would you explain us what is it about please?

Sue: It is not in Cape Town, it is about 400 km east of Cape Town and it is in the mountains, deep in the mountain and it is what we have created there over some 20 years, it is a work of a stretching center, where people come to do workshops that we offer in the line of what we have been speaking about now, but it is also opened to other groups to come and work and for us it is a very important project of enabling the natural world to give full expression to itself and yet for us enter into relationship with it because, the softly wild spices live on the earth we realize, and so this feels really really important to engage in a way that we also realize how much we learn from being in that space and how much people will come to learn from the natural environment and also how much there heals, so it is not what we are expecting, nature to heal us, but once again if we enter into a reciprocal relationship with the environment, the nature, the healing happens in both direction. 

Florencia: Have you had much people in your place going there? How long have it been?

Allan: The first was in 2009 for people to come. We had been working on it for many years, slowly, by hand, carefully, not wanting to impose the wilderness, and eventually in 2009 we had our first people coming from the public to ten workshops or processes, now in 2016 we had other facilitators who come and work with this relationship with nature and ourselves. 

Florencia: Oh so you had a very nice experience working there with people.

Sue: and some other parts of the world. We had people form New Zealand, Australia, India, Germany, Namibia, Netherlands, Brazil, it is amazing thing to see how many people have been in Towerland touch it and had been touch by towerland.

Florencia: Very nice. And you have a master degree?

Allan: Yes we run an international masters degree, in reflecting social practice, what we call reflecting social practice run out by Proteus Initiative in collaboration with other universities http://proteusschool.org.uk/, London Metropolitan University and we travel where the place where students are living and come together and we work together observational practice inside their work practice.

Florencia: it must be very interesting for the academic environment, because they are not accustomed to this kind of practice.

Sue: yes it is very interest because we designed a process which doesn´t compromise academia at all, what we are trying to do and we have been very fortunate to be able to create a program which people can be accredited of but it which is completely faithful to what we are working out.

Allan: and it also demands rigor and standards, that academia doesn´t work, it is helpful for our practice to also meet material of rigor, but we do it on our own way, we have an alternative kind of certification, 

Florencia: it is a kind of system thinking because you talked about the inn and out. What you feel  inside, what we feel inside and what the world is, it is like a systemic thinking about life.

Allan: it is about asking ourselves, can we change the world being opened to be changed by the world. It is a real relationship with the world, not assuming that we are here to fix it or so in the way we use it, but rather that we are in the world and the ability to see how the world is. It is a relationship that we have to support. 

Florencia: I think the academia must write papers with your experience. It would be very valuable for science to learn from practice and that is what you are doing. So how can we do the master if we would like to go from Argentine to Southafrica to do the master that you are teaching.

Sue: You have to wait for the next master program to begin, because now people will come this next one, but we can give our website and then people who are interest, can look on our website and just see what we are doing that is available there. Generally with programs, because we have another terms of programs also outside the masters. We are running a program here in Argentine. 

Florencia: So you are running a program here in Argentine.

Sue: Yes a three year program

Florencia: And you are giving it with Buhar.

Allan: we do the three year program between the Proteus Initiative and Buhar. We have no relationship with any university.

Sue: It is not an accredited program, but you can do it here in Argentine.

Florencia: Thank you very much for your time today, it was a great pleasure to meet you, to know that you have very valuable initiatives threw you, threw Buhar, i am very pleased to have you here and i would like many many people to know you here so take and know your initiative and to make a better world. Have a nice staying in Argentine.

Sue: And thank you for the opportunity to speak with you.

Florencia: Oh Thank you, Thank you, you are welcome!

    

Executive Program in: Social Responsibility, Innovation & Sustainability

Versión en castellano aquí

Value Co Creation is one of the most attracting coined concepts that got more attention into the business field during last years, along with Creation of Shared Value, Stakeholder´s Theory approach and John Elkington´s Triple Botton Line.
While Gro Bundtland´s Sustainability definition was proposed more than 20 years ago, organizations have failed to bring about a culture that help the paradigm  shift   needed, in order  to   manage   these   issues. Since SR and Sustainability are not a mere corporate philanthropy act, but also a Social Responsibility,Thrive ability and innovation driver, the most difficult thing is to implement these concepts. To help solving these problems, we developed application   models   based   on   technical   leadership and organizational development, taking mainstream management tools as a compass.

AgendaRSE invites you to attend the On Line blended education Program in Social Responsibility, Innovation and Sustainability, that can be done from the place you choose whenever you have a minimum connection of 2 MB Internet for two months, Tuesdays and Thursdays from 19 to 22. It counts 40 total hours, within which 4 are on a golf field, in a microclimate that allows the connection with nature in Pacheco, Buenos Aires Province in Argentine.

The program is aimed at professionals from different areas of the organizations that need tools to innovate their products, processes and services in order to make the company more sustainable. The program has a global reach so we expect to receive students around the world.

Information and registration: http://aulamultimedia.com.ar/agendarse-programa-ejecutivo

Interview with Charles Francois Honorary President of the Integrated Systems Study Group in Argentine

Spanish version here

Charles Francois

Interview with Charles François, Honorary President of the Group for the Study of Integrated Systems (GESI)  in Argentina

Charles François is a Belgium systemist investigator and scholar, founder of  the Group for the Study of Integrated Systems (GESI) in Argentina, and its honorary president; he is also the honorary president of the Latin American Association of Systemics (ALAS), and a member of the International Academy of Systemic and Cybernetics (IASCYS) created in 2010 in Vienna, Austria. In 2015, he was honored as Fellow by the International Federation for Systems Research (IFSR). Since 1958 on, he is a member of the International Society for the Systems Sciences (ISSS), and also member of the International Federation for Systems Research and of the American Society of Cybernetics. He has integrated the Spanish Society of General Systems, and was a visiting professor of the Andean Institute of Systems of Lima, Peru.
In 2007 he was awarded with the title of Honorary Professor of the Technological Institute of Buenos Aires (ITBA), and  by  the  American Society of Cybernetics, with    the Norbert Wiener Medal.

Florencia: Why did you choose Argentina as a destination to live since 1963?

François: In the sixties, we returned  to Brussels, after years of staying at the present  Republic of Congo, and I decided to travel to South America seeking for  better opportunities for us. In Argentina, especially in Mendoza province where  I  met compatriots , among them the prominent engraver artist Victor Delhez .

Florencia: How did began your interest in the research and teaching of the General Systems Theory and Cybernetics in 1951?

François: It was a mixture of natural curiosity and circumstances.
I was impressed by  a science fiction novel "The voyage of the Spaceship Beagle" by A. E. van Vogt where a curious character: "the nexialist" of the expedition appered; he  only had to intervene when there was an incomprehensible danger to the rest of the crew to  "connect the dots" in order to understand complex situations.
According to the author, "nexialism" derived from the General Semantics of  Korzybski, a Polish logician creator of the Institute for the Study of General Semantics in Lakeville, United States. While I lived at the time in Central Africa, I was curious to find out if the institute really existed. This was confirmed and I became a member , receiving every two months a bulletin of information. In 1956, the bulletin announced the creation of the Society for General Systems Research, at the University of Ann Arbor, Michigan, by the initiative and entrepreneurship of Ludwig von Bertanlanffy, Kenneth Boulding and Anatol Rappoport. The goal was to find common concepts and isomorphies among  the various sciences and try to create a methodology that would avoid duplication of research efforts and would better connect experts from various disciplines, enabling a closer and more open dialogue.

I adhered to the Society in 1958 ... and I'm still a member, since one of my purposes is to  support systemic institutions around the world.

Florencia: How did you became the founder of the Group GESI in Argentina, and what were the main challenges in those 6 years (1984-1990) and now  as Honorary President?

François: While participating in a meeting of the Institute of Cybernetics of the Argentine Scientific Society, held in Cordoba early in the 70s, I was invited by its president, Dr. Maximo Valentinuzzi, to address a series of conferences to professionals from diverse disciplines but with a common interest in various cybernetic issues. In my lectures I included the concepts and applications of General Systems Theory.  The growing interest in these issues led to the idea of ​​creating a Study Group of Integrated Systems of which I became the coordinator and over the
years President. Once GESI  was created their members did many efforts and personal apportations for its institutionalization, and although much support was obtained from  researchers and scholars, our academic activity in various private and official institutions, etc. the Group was not oficially supported .  As to the  methodologies, despite the recognition of their theoretical and practical value, Systemics was not incorported to the official curricula. Although, as systemist, member and Honorary President of one of the first groups in Latin America ,  I still hope  that this situation will be reversed given the value and usefulness of the subject, mainly as a contribution to education and to other sciences, to ensure a  better governance of systems of all kinds.

Florencia: As honorary president of the Latin American Association of Systemic (ALAS), and honorary member of the International Academy of Systemic and Cybernetics (IASCYS) created in 2010 in Vienna, Austria, what are your main conclusions regarding the evolution of these disciplines?

François: The interest  in our contributions to local meetings and to those held in the northern hemisphere, fostered the creation of  new study groups of research, and stimulated work  in Latin America, by systemists  who persevere in the teaching and practice of  methodologies to their students, both in Mexico (ALAS Mexico Group) as well as in Venezuela (ELAPDIS) in Colombia, University of Los Andes, in the Andean Institute of Systems Peru (IAS) , at the National University of Chile, FundAringenio of Santiago del Estero, the Group ISSS Brazil at the University of Sao Paulo. Meanwhile, the IASCYS is expanding its platform of academicians to create an international map with the presence within it of scholars from Asian countries,  Eastern and Central Europe, applying the experience of its members from a wide variety of research topics and applications to important issues such as bio-economy, renewable energy, medicine research, the development of communities organized for the preservation of our planet , social and entrepreneurial responsibility, and other highly valuable issues   that are taking shape and  spreading.

Florencia: Many authors are devoted to the study of organizations as living systems, what you recommend for mental health organizations?

François: these should be approached as complex systems, attending their subsystems, hierarchies, regulations, their relations with their environment, their links with the social environment  to  satisfy their own needs and those of the community.

In one of my works  I also proposed:
- Ensure that the entity always responds to the purposes for which it was created,  or  effectively  produce the  goods and services expected  from it
- Ensure that these same purposes remain valid, monitor changes and act  accordingly
- Ensure to the entity the  resources it needs, or otherwise apply convenient conservation or replacement measures
- Maintain the internal efficiency of the institution, which involves, valuing and  monitoring the proper use of available resources in the different processes, the balance between the elements and functional groups and  the eventual introduction  of necessary changes.
- Attend a permanent harmonization  of the relations between the entity and its environment.

Florencia: Why do you believe that sustainability has failed to permeate the culture of organizations?

François: This occurs because and when organizations are only concerned with short-term goals, ignoring basic conditions for their permanence in the long term, while they are embedded in a complex reality that requires attention and adaptability; such lack of perception makes them unlikely to be sustainable over time ...

      

Florencia: What do you think of the theories developed by Bela Banathy regarding the design of more advanced social systems and the work developed by Ervin Laszlo with the Club of Budapest?

Francois: Both Laszlo  and Banathy show us that our responsibility as systemists is to design a new and more satisfying understanding of our common problems. This is not to develop pure abstractions, or create a new ideology, but to develop ways of adaptive and evolutionary action, co-participatory and consensual, and offer it for the critical study to anyone willing to collaborate effectively. This shoud brings us closer to a true systemic ethics, being  moreover, the ethical tradition of all the great cultures of the world.

Florencia: Why is there so much distance between science and business?  Do you believe there has been an ivory tower in science too?

Francois: I understand, that when the lack of integration occurs, it is clearly because of a lack of a systemic vision from both sectors; a lack of isomorphic concepts that would create linkages, encouraging communication and the dialogue among experts from all areas. Generalists models are available to scientists and entrepreneurs to be learned, used and thus achieve more effective development.

Florencia: What do you think about the term called systemic innovation and what are the best tools we have to consider to develop such innovations?

Francois: and what are the best tools we have to consider to develop such innovation?

François: This concept is related to the level of adaptability of the entity to the variability of the environment, and to the challenges it presents.
Systemists recognize that only adaptability can guarantee the dynamic stability of the system ... It is important to reflect on how the company adapts to the variability of the environment. A fundamental behavioral framework should clearly distinguish the difference and even the opposition between adaptation and adaptability. Adaptation is merely the response to a more or less static state. The system may cannot survive when a new disturbance occurs, although a very similar state can sometimes be reconstructed (autopoiesis).
Moreover, adaptability is the system's ability to choose between several possible states, according to the conditions or needs resulting from the registered disturbances.
Accordingly Ashby´s law on Required Variety says: "Only the internal variety of system can counteract the variety imposed by the environment."
It is obvious that the internal variety is closely related to the systems complexity. And in a somewhat similar sense, the system is autonomous only to the extent that it has reserves of energy, matter and information that allow to compensate perturbations imposed by the environment. However, the system does not always, nor necessarily revert to previous states. You can innovate, if you have considerable means, or at least enough to cross an upper threshold of complexity (the "distant irreversible systems breakeven" as they were described by Prigogine) This in many cases can become a risky leap into the void.
So a good knowledge and understanding of these mechanisms of adaptability,  is essential for all decision-makers at all levels.

Florencia: Why were you honored as Fellow by the International Federation for Systems Research (IFSR), could you tell us your story about this?

François: It was a friendly gesture of recognition by the Federation of my career as systemic visiting professor, that happily led to the creation of more Groups of systemic studies in our Latin American region.  Having sustained the Systems Thinking, I created my two editions of the  International Encyclopedia of Systems and Cybernetics, and I  donated much part of my personal library to the systemic community in opportunity of the creation of the von Bertalanffy  Center in Vienna.

Florencia: You are the author of books, essays, contributions to meetings, seminars, courses and numerous articles published at national and international level.  However your writings have not received  much marketing. Which of these would you recommend that we should not miss to read, and why?

François: Many of my writings correspond to my concerns and thoughts on our society and specially the educational theme; I always considered education as a subject of wider and more transcendent character than mere instruction given generally in schools; education is a more comprehensive and transformative process of the person. As systemist I offered these views in oral and written form.   I consider tha education as a valuable tool to expand and improve perception, understand relationships, conceptual linkages, facilitate the study of models and systems goals as inclusive and sustainable as possible. In favour of the teaching of the methodologies I dedicated myself mainly to reference works: the Dictionary of GST and Cybernetics in Spanish, the two editions of International Encyclopedia of GST and Cybernetics published in Germany, Courses, Conferences and Seminars published by GESI, my Introduction to Prospective,  edited by El Ateneo in Buenos Aires, my work on Problemology in Systemic Terms, published by the IAS in Peru. I understand that several of these works may be appreciated by a public with a genuine interest in these generalistic topics, and I hope to contribute with them to achieve a more comprehensive personal and collective perception, avoid  as far as possible the fragmentation of thought,  and develop a more comprehensive view, nurturing a more efficient participations in projects,  in the use of resources needed , in a more effective action  in all personal and community  endeavours…

Florencia: As a member of the International Society for the Systems Sciences (ISSS) since 1958, of the International Federation for Systems Research, of the American Society of Cybernetics, of the Spanish Society of General Systems, and  honorary member visiting professor of the Andean Institute of Systems of Lima, Peru…  what are your main experiences with these organizations, and would like to highlight from each of them to help this kind of knowledge to be  democratized?

François: Being interested in their activities, informing and making contact with its authorities and its members, I sought to participate in regular meetings,  in their projects, and provide them my articles, lectures, courses and seminars. They are diverse in terms of their resources, actions and impact on the context in which they operate: North American, European, Latin American… The common denominator is that in each there are personalities with talent and tenacity, who not only inspired, but sustained and nourished them earnestly over decades. There is interesting  information about  them on the web.

  

Florencia: You were awarded the title of Honorary Professor of the Technological Institute of Buenos Aires (ITBA). Who has been awarded this distinction and why in the ITBA?

Francois:  François:  ITBA Authorities gave me this honor, a recognition concocted by its current rector Prof. Roces (whom I met in the 70's in meetings we held with other current members of GeSI) together with members of Fund Aringenio of Santiago del Estero; I consider they are both a recognition and appreciation of our systemic and cybernetic methodologies by their directors and teachers, and other systemic colleagues that are  linked with the institution

Florencia: You were also awarded the Norbert Wiener Medal by the American Society of Cybernetics in 2007. Could you tell us a little more of what this award is and how we might encourage more students to take interest in this type of study?

François: This award is given by the American Society of Cybernetics in recognition of research in the cybernetic sciences, through performing original works, which contribute significantly to the concepts, and deservedly support to that area of ​​knowledge. Fittingly (2007) my award from the American Society of Cybernetics was published in international journals of systemics , and commented on the websites of systemic organizations; personally I was interviewed by a local magazine of general topics, for its science column. It may be that, as the prize is more widespread among academic institutions and also have the widest possible distribution by the scientific journalism, more researchers and students could apply  cybernetics, become members or acquainted to the ASC, and perhaps according to their personal contributions, achieve this merit. Institutional ASC, provides information in the internet.

Florencia: As a member of editorial boards of several international journals, among which  Systems Research & Behavioral Science (USA), Systems Practice (UK), Revue Internationale de Systémique (Paris), what are the papers and publications that are most recommended to read and why, for Sustainability students, to help them solve the current problems of living systems?

François: Evaluation of human activities that threaten the sustainability of living systems, has emerged.  Minimal but significant action has been taken and for several decades testimonies of researchers and social thinkers are being published who warn of such conducts, of the damage and possible remedies.
Some authors with a systemic approach and global vision, present their reflections to help better understand how to interact intelligently with both natural systems, as well as  artificial ones around us. Such a new vision can generate a better understanding and enable more adaptable and successful action when and where uncertainty prevails. Numerous models of this type do exist in our systemic didactic, all very useful, such as: the relationship of the system with its environment; its mode of internal organization; the types of processes it undergoes, its  more or less cyclical behavior, the limits of its stability; the laws of its growth, crises and the discontinuities that can affect the nature and operation of its regulations, etc.
In this regard, I could mention titles like "The biosphere between thermodynamics and play" by Ramon Margalef, "Environment, power and society" by Howard Odum, “La nouvelle alliance” by Ilya Prigogine, "The Third Wave" by Alvin Toffler ... not forgetting the basal work of James Miller: "Living Systems".  All of these stimulate awareness through knowledge, as  we cannot preserve what we do not understand ...

Florencia: you were a visiting professor at several national and foreign universities, organizer and coordinator of courses, seminars, workshops, seminars, and conferences in Argentina and abroad. Your constant work in the teaching and dissemination of systemic and cybernetic methodologies, gave impetus to the creation of several systemic groups in Argentine provinces and in Latin America. What should you recommend to someone about to begin studying systems theory? Is the Dictionary of General Systems Theory and Cybernetics and International Encyclopedia of Systems and Cybernetics a good start?

François: Several members of GESI as well as myself organized numerous presentations and courses on General Systems Theory and Cybernetics, seminars, etc. Some were published and are available; they  include graphics for a better perception and understanding of the more abstract concepts and their applications, in  organisations and enterprises of various kinds, with overview representations.
Also, my reference books in Spanish and English allow for a general synthesis through integrating concepts and systemic and cybernetic models, using inclusive format interconnections; each definition also includes translation into various languages ​​and extensive bibliographies on all the issues presented  are provided

Florencia: What do you think about scientists such as Fritjof Capra, Bateson, Maturana and Varela and what proposals would  you make to the new generations to offer greater contributions to science as continuity to their findings?

François: I think that they, among many others, have inspired to research in general a deeper and more comprehensive thought; their theories have contributed significantly to the General Systems Theory, have enriched it.
They induced as my case, more than specialized readings, and gave the opportunity to discover ancient and contemporaneus great authors, philosophers, and those whose works try to convey their thoughts in any more integrated way about the state, shape and objectives of our societies and the progress of knowledge. Frequenting meetings, participating in debates, proposing areas of integrative research offer good opportunities for new advances.

Florencia: If you had to mention scientists in Argentina with a long history and prestige as you not so well known, who would you highlight?

François: Several members of the Study Group GESI, dedicated research and teaching in different areas of knowledge, and from various professorships and institutions. They offer  systemic vision; They have published books and numerous papers about it; some are retired but still attentive and available for consultation, and others are in full swing. I invite you to join our website (www.gesi.org.ar) to know their personalities and their work, very inspiring for young, old, and every interested student. 

Florencia: Nestor Dominguez wasn´t mentioned in this interview, but he is a notable 82 years old scientist, interested in the study of complex systems from the systemic and cybernetical approach.  He  have written many books in the field. Nestor is not only a philosopher but an ex argentine marine that fighted in Malvinas war times. He studied  dolphins interspecies communication and life in other planets.  While living in London during  1974- 1976, he  was based there as navy engineer at the  "Hercules destructor"  in Vickers Barrow-in-Furness  dockyard.  I consider  Eng. Nestor Dominguez as a hidden argentine hero.  His main publications regarding sustainability are:"Towards an ecologycally sustainable thinking" ( 20 years ago),  "For an ecoethic  civilization" ( with free internet access).  Both books offer us a  philosophic approach regarding sustainability, the first one to be re- edited, but it can be found in the Navy Center in Buenos Aires.

Nestor Dominguez, Charles François , M.T. Barinotto

Florencia: Is there any other questions we have not made that you'd like to respond?

François: I think it would be time to bring forth these exchanges, and I expect them to have a favorable reception, and become useful as they are gaining ground in all social activities at the national and international levels. I emphasize that linear thinking is appropriate to focus and reflect merely on simple, familiar topics. Instead, to understand the diverse and complex reality in which we live, we require a commensurate thought: complex, most innovative and inclusive. To dimensionate its importance, it is opportune to highlight the next  World Congress on Complex Thinking to be held in Paris next december 2016, sponsored by UNESCO and the Government of France.

"We are in an era that requires a paradigm shift and this occurs very rarely in history, sustitute disjunction by distinction, reduction by dependence. To distinguish and simultaneously connect. It is the paradigm of complexity, complexus means connected, interwoven. Complex thought is a thought that connects; connects with the context, trying to understand what a system is"

Morín, E.

Gunger Pauli Interview, the Founder of Blue Economy!

We were with Gunter Pauli, Founder of Blue Economy

Spanish version here

Gunter Pauli

Florencia: We read a lot about you, you are of from Belgium, you are an entrepreneur and have presented this initiative, Blue Economy to Club of Rome that had been approved by the Club of Rome. Is that so?

Gunter: as a researcher at the University of the United Nations, i had the task to imagine a new business model. I proposed  the concept of zero emissions, zero waste in 94. What it happened is that during the Kyoto protocol it was not accepted as a concept, politicians decided to make a certification to exchange certificates for allowances so I decided to commit to specific projects, to see if it is possible to have no waste. It does not mean that there is no waste, but all wastes have an added value that respond to a local need. Well, after about 15 years of work, i proposed it to the Club of Rome, that in all research and practice, we should have zero emissions, and it would have to  be offered to the world in a broader academic platform, but my colleague was told that the name "zero emissions" would not like much, because it is too technical, too complicated and everyone says that is not possible, and so I asked him a different name and thus was born the concept of  " blue Economy" because the sky is blue, the sea is blue and the view of the exterior of the universe is also mainly blue.

Florencia: there hss been a FAO publication that ask to incorporate Blue economy to Green Economy.What do you think about that?

Gunter: Look, we have a reality, there is a lot of greenwashing, people are saying that we are sustainable, we are green and that is not truth and we are clear about not to disturb what people are doing at the other side i do not want to disturb people who are making effords to to get it better. I mean I'm like a pioneer, who is always on, always pushing for new standards. For me, a new standard is a change of ethics, it means that we can not pollute less, we have to do better with what we have. That is, if i am a person who pollute less, and still contaminate. Is it okay ?. That is similar to say that if i am a thief and you are the police and you grab me like a thief and i say, i'll keep stealing less is not an answer that you would enjoy, you will not be happy with that. You're going to say that I do not steal. If you are polluting, does it sounds logic to pollute less? Physically we have to do it in our nature, in our environment, in our city, in our forests. And so I think that all the change from green to blue is all we have to rearrange to talk about ethics. We spent doing less bad to do much better.

Florencia: What do you think abut the Club of Budapest, does it aims to be the continuation of the Club of Rome, have you been in contact with this Club, from which country?

Gunter: I looked at the outset, I am a creative member of the Club of Budapest, I was invited by Ervin Laszlo, we were together in the Club of Rome, because Ervin Laszlo was a member of the Club of Rome from the 79, that is that we already spent many years . The Club of Budapest has a slightly different approach. It is much more focused on what we call ethics, business concept and much more ethical behavior. The Club of Rome has a very long-term perspective, it has a perspective of the interconnectedness of all activities on earth. It is systemic, and I think they are complementary at the end of the day, and I think more or less about 10 members of the Club of Rome are also members of the Club of Budapest.

Florencia: isn´t an initiative that has a lot to do with spirituality? Thomas Berry, is one of its members, there are many spiritual leaders is´n it?

Gunter: Yes, what it happens is that we need certain approaches. I think the Club of Budapest has its approaches, it is more at a target level, the Club of Rome  is really focusing on the problems of our interconnected lives, you can not solve the water problem if you do not have health, if you do not have health, you can not talk about food, if you do not have food, water, health you have to connect with the housing and mobility,  everything is highly interconnected. Hence the Club of Rome has a very unique message. I think the message of the Club of Rome has more value today, because the Club of Rome has always discussed the need to leave in your black box. We live in a black box where we wanto to find a solution to water, and if you only look at the water, chlorine is perhaps the only solution to find, because you drill chlorine in water and you think you have solved the problem. No, chlorine also creates another problem. You'll want to replace chlorine with other chemicals that may also generate another problem. That is the great value of the Club of Rome, it has the ability to explain and complete cases, that the world is interconnected, which is also another form of spirituality.

Florencia: How do you see Argentina and the Blue Economy? How do you think that your initiative may impact here in Argentina?

Gunter: Look, I'm not here since 18 years, i can not claim to have a menu in my pocket to respond. No, I'm here to learn. To dialogue, to give me an impression about which are the challenges facing the country, what are the challenges facing the people, every country has its challenges, everyone has their cross to bear. But the important thing is that i want to take these 5 days, 6 days in Argentina to learn, to listen and to share some specific cases we have implemented in the world, because you can talk about philosophy, with concepts, but people today need to be inspired by something you can touch, and something you can touch and see and not the ordinary. It's not what we're expecting. I hope my specific cases give some guidelines that might be feasible, but at some point may be very critical, because we have to say what does not work, which is already more than proven that more of the same will not have better results.

Einstein defined as stupid when you try to do more of the same expecting good results, you can not.

Argentina has a new government, Argentina has a chance, but we can not expect too much from one person. We have to make a transformation in ourselves in order to access other opportunities. In the longer term I hope we can help build the portfolio of opportunities. My organization is not engaged in analyzing problems. People devote their whole life to analyze problems. I do not, the problems are what they are, but we have to identify what is already possible today because unemployment has no patience, hunger has no patience, mothers with a malnourished child does not have patience, and we must remember that poor people, have the right to live well. If we put everything in a long term, and trust only in large multinational companies, I feel sorry for everyone, but that's not what will take the country forward.

It is only a component that can help, but not enough.

Florence: I imagine that systemic innovation for you cover all these issues.

Gunter: is more than systemic. What we need is innovation to certain and different levels at the same time. That is, we need the integration of a product. For example, we could control bacteria without chemistry. No. Very shoeing. First, we have many other techniques that allow us to have that goal. Second, we need to think that the process that generates the product or service must also be rethought. The process of reaching production, chemistry with a physical effect. We need to be very clear and sustainable. We must respond to the needs of the economy and the nature and third, perhaps most importantly, we need to change the business model of today where the only goal is to make money, please. Life is not money, we can not grab up one day when we are not. This means that we have to dedicate ourselves to a concrete reflection on what is the business model. And  not the business model where we always have been teaching in the great universities, we have to produce more from less, more of the same, but always at a lower cost and this will have no future. The economy of scale by producing cheaper destroys the social fabric, destroys the fabric of nature, it also destroys the purpose of the economy, which is to generate added value.

The engine of the economy is not low, the engine of the economy is generating more added value. Tangible and intangible, and  we think the biggest challenge we have today is rethinking the business model.

If we are not willing to rethink the business model, we will never get out of the crisis. Not in the US, or Japan, or China, or here.

Florencia:  are you living in Japan or South Africa?

Gunter: all my activities are in Japan, but then Tsunami, life in Japan for a family of 6 children is not life, so my family decided to move to South Africa.

Finally I told him that Father Opeka, an Argentine candidate for Nobel Peace Prize who is bringing people out of poverty and garbage dumps.I told him that i hoped him to find him and follow him, and that these initiatives are very important. I mentioned that they may have the possibility to replicate in Argentina. Gunter concluded by saying that this last depends on the Argentines. I agree!

Sustainable Brands Buenos Aires 2016

Activating purpose in action

September 13th & 14th @ La Usina del Arte

The largest learning and inspiration community on sustainability and global brands come to Buenos Aires for the third consecutive year. Various formats and renewed trends, proposals and opportunities to change the way we do business and create sustainable value will be explored in Sustainable Brands Buenos Aires on September 13 & 14 th @ La Usina del Arte.

The guiding theme this year will be the "Activating your purpose", ie, how brands / leading companies achieve success in business while creating a positive and scalable impact, guided by a drivable purpose and shared value. This topic will be addressed from five themes: Purpose Macro Level, Leadership and Organizational Change, Impact Innovation, Engagement through Creating Shared Value and How to raise our collective purpose.

Between the confirmed speakers so far, there will be Gunter Pauli, the renowned creator of the Blue Economy, an economic model that intends to use the accumulated knowledge over millions of years from nature to achieve increasingly higher levels of efficiency, respecting the environment and creating wealth, and taking that logic from the ecosystem to the business world. There will also be as speakers Daniela Pigosso, cofounder of Essensus, who will speak on sustainable maturity, Danielle Nierenberg, president of Food Tank and expert on sustainable agriculture and food, Mark Johnson from Playing for Change, Solitaire Townsend, cofounder of the international sustainability strategy Futerra and Tamar Hahn, Information Center Director of United Nations in Argentina and Uruguay.

After the success of the two previous years, this edition comes with a novelty in the purchase of tickets. This is the "Inputs Purpose" which, under the format "Buy 1 Give 1" proposed that per-individual input or corporative- being acquired, there will be a no cost placce to generate a change agent. For this benefit, applicants must register on the website and prove the membership of an organization or project with social or environmental impact.

Sustainable Brands is a global conference network that includes San Diego, London, Rio de Janeiro, Barcelona, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Istanbul, Sydney and Copenhagen. Like the previous edition, it is organized by URBAN Communication Group, together with Sustainable Life Media and a wide network of collaborators and sponsors from Argentina and the world.

" Sustainable Brands seek to add value to the conversation and inspiration on Trades and Sustainability, and thus contribute to awaken new ideas and exchanges that make way for major changes in the way we do business and build meaningfully for those brands," says Gabriela Korovsky, founding partner of Urban Communication Group and General Director from Sustainable Brands Buenos Aires.

For two days, Sustainable Brands Buenos Aires released this year new formats that seek to prioritize collective action, combining plenary sessions, panel discussions, workshops, thematic sessions, open dialogues, speaking corners and instances of networking, with the conviction that only the co-creation and coordination of participants work is what allows real change. In turn, will combine an exhibition on national and international initiatives of companies that are already transforming the business environment.

Participants also have the opportunity to attend international conferences, in which the change agents linked to the most influential companies in the world will take place. It will be a space for joint interaction between corporations, NGOs, investors, governments, and other stakeholders.

For more information go to: http://sustainablebrandsba.com